San Antonio Pastor Plays Constitutional Scholar, Social Scientist, Historian in Marriage Debate

It doesn’t take long before religious-right opponents of the freedom to marry for gay and lesbian couples turn to fear-mongering about pedophilia and insist that civil laws be based on the Bible. Consider, for example, a “town hall” discussion Tuesday on San Antonio radio station KTSA.

The discussion featured Daniel McNeel “Neel” Lane, the plaintiffs’ attorney in the Texas same-sex marriage case currently before the federal Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, and Charles Flowers, pastor of Faith Outreach International of San Antonio and a member of the virulently anti-gay Texas Pastor Council. You can listen to the nearly hour-long discussion here, but this short clip features one of Flowers’ main arguments against the freedom to marry for gay and lesbian couples:

Flowers: “And I think this is ultimately where we’re wrestling. We’re wrestling about whether or not God’s word is a legitimate foundation for the structure that governs our daily lives, as it relates to marriage or anything else. So for many of us who opposes the issue, it’s not really about some angst against homosexuals or lesbians. There are people who, from our viewpoint, battle with struggles just like every other person may battle with their own set of struggles. But every other person is not seeking to have their struggles legitimized and codified. So for us, it is not an issue of love and feeling, because if you get into that, then where do you draw the line for a person who perhaps is a male but he’s turned on sexually because he views a child. So what stops that thing from happening? What illegitimizes pedophilia, and legitimizes homosexuality or lesbianism? And to go back to the notion that Neel said a moment ago that sexuality is an immutable characteristic, boy, that’s a huge bridge too far. Because there are people whose sexual orientation, they have acknowledged has crossed moral boundaries.”

Trey Ware (host/moderator): “So people are not born that way? Is that what you’re saying? [Neel] mentioned eye color a second ago. So you don’t choose that, just like you don’t choose your eye color?”

Flowers: “There’s been nothing scientific that validates the fact that a person is born with a homosexual or lesbian gene. Are they born with certain proclivities, yes, but that is not exclusive to a homosexual or the lesbian. Everybody is born with a set of proclivities that may align with law and order, and may not.”

Flowers also argued (at the 56:35 mark in the full clip) that our laws and Constitution are based on the Bible:

“The Bible is the most quoted source in the formation of our founding documents, Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that what formed the framers’ thinking was the Bible. … You can track down through the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, the most referenced source document is the Bible.”

Flowers even echoed arguments from phony historian and religious-right propagandist David Barton, claiming that the American form of government — such as the creation of three separate branches of government — come straight out of the Bible.

At the end of the discussion, Flowers made clear that the basis for civil law in America should be the Bible — at least how he interprets it:

“ The issue is … whether or not God’s word is the foundation upon which healthy operation of society should rest. For the last 240 years, we have thought so in this country. Now we are seeking to replace the Judeo-Christian ethic and moral teaching of the Scripture as the moral foundation for the nation and move it away from that foundation….”

5 thoughts on “San Antonio Pastor Plays Constitutional Scholar, Social Scientist, Historian in Marriage Debate

  1. I am so sick of this crap that we are a Christian nation, and the crap that our Constitution was written based on the bible. It was not, nor are we a Christian nation. We were formed as a secular nation so that everyone, including those who do not believe in god would be free to live their lives as they see fit. I would like to know when more people are going to stand up and challenge these people who push their beliefs on the rest of us.

  2. Christians, according to Faux, are under attack. That is patently not true. What IS true is that ANY ATTEMPT TO MERGE RELIGION OF ANY KIND, INCLUDING MINE, is against the most basic law of the land: The Constitution.

    I do not proselytize others and resent totally the liars of the so-called religious right who insist on jamming their ancient beliefs on anyone other than themselves.

    The funny-mentalists can think that this is a Christian nation all they want but it does not change the fact that the Founders of this once-great nation deliberately set this country up as a SECULAR NATION with no connection to a bible. They do not know what the original bibles read nor can they read them by tearing out a word here and a phrase there and say “This is what the bible says.” In short, they are weak in the brains.

    The second president of this country even SAID that this nation was not founded on the Christian religion. He was the writer of the Declaration of Independence.

    The founders came over here from a nation that was a definite Christian nation and whether or not people believed, they had to support their religion.

    I could go on and on but I’d be preaching to the choir, wouldn’t I?

    I could care LESS than what their bibles say. They stick to the KJV and not a real translation. I cannot wait for the day when they sink into the ground and are never heard from again.

    It would be one thing if they were honest about their reasons for not wanting single-sex marriage. They think that the first parts of Genesis are real, they are NOT, they are myth. Adam and Eve were not real..human life began in Africa and they HATE that fact. Every human being alive has black blood running through their veins.


  3. Here we go again.
    If we’re going to use the Bible as our model for marriage and sexuality, then polygamy, concubinage, having sex with your slaves, marrying your brother’s widow, and prostitution are all A-OK.
    If the Fundies are OK with all that, then why are they so worried about same-sex marriage?

  4. When the Right Wing starts to equate being LGBT with pedophilia, then we can all take this to the bank, they’re fearful and worried that they’re going to or have already lost their agenda to subjugate and enslave the LGBT community. By making LGBT citizens second class citizens they’re ensuring that the people who are LGBT will continue indefinitely as second class citizens over the longhaul and they’ll be able to oppress even further the interests of equality and equity.